Only in the past year have I become "partner selection discernment"-pilled. A bit embarrassing given my age but we move on regardless. So many issues, pieces of advice, and stories could be simply resolved with asking the question: are you dating someone that you feel it's worth having this issue with? If so, why is it a problem? If not, why are you with them?
Some grace allowed for people that change or switch up after major milestones. I've heard of this happening after marriage, baby, etc. But even then the solution is relatively straightforward: do you want to be with the person they are now? If they return to their original state, do you want to be with someone that could revert back at any time?
Not implying it's easy to then make a decision based on the answers to these questions, but I would say it's relatively simple. And in the case where one does stay, as you say, it makes sense to identify your own contributions to the dynamic and what you can change to trigger a spiral with better outcomes.
I do all the trad things without complaints and no amount of stepping up has ever happened. I think this basically only works in one direction; punishing a spouse makes everything worse, but doing what they think is "your job" does not in the least make them think they should also do "your job."
TMI, but I'm a man raised by a SAHM who definitely perfected pouting-as-punishment, whose first relationships (quite young) were with folks with similarly passive aggressive or 'tricky' communication styles when upset (tbf, I was also insecure and a bad communicator, so I'm sure they regret these relationships too!). I'm currently trying to undo a lot of people-pleasing or -managing (as you point out, trying to get what you want without any conflict is not exactly pleasant for the other person). I've never really understood the fears you cite re: marriage, bc I've instinctually tried to avoid any loutish behavior in all my relationships - the problem was that I avoided them straight into emotional repression which made actual connection impossible lmao. A long pattern of taking things upon myself, suppressing my feelings, and then mysteriously feeling somewhere between unfulfilled and resentful.
This is all to say this article is really resonant, and helpful for me to read at this moment in time. It sounds like you have a lovely thing going, and certainly what I wish for. It does confirm my assumption that like, a lot of folks just kinda pick weird marriages and probably coulda been choosier (he says, while wondering what's up with marriage and childbirth rates...). Trying to make this the year I am ruthlessly forthright with everyone and stop compartmentalizing myself.
>he says, while wondering what's up with marriage and childbirth rates...
Among many other things, this is what annoys me about a certain TFR-anxious type of person. They do not nearly qualify their statements enough with the basic tension that maybe, the "natural" or desired birthrate in a society where people get to choose their partners and leave bad ones is lower than prior years.
That aside: have you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy"? The book itself is a bit hokey in today's modern age, but there are some gems there that I think you'd like.
Re: society - I’ve wondered recently if we might see something like what happened with divorce, where after an initial burst of cases, things predictably normalized. I don’t know what I would predict the next stage is in this case, but it does feel like a symptom of being mid-civilizational change.
Re: book - wow am I allergic to that branding! Looking into it to give it a fair shake and will circle back, but yeah I don’t think that’s a great title to attract dudes like me 😅
Only in the past year have I become "partner selection discernment"-pilled. A bit embarrassing given my age but we move on regardless. So many issues, pieces of advice, and stories could be simply resolved with asking the question: are you dating someone that you feel it's worth having this issue with? If so, why is it a problem? If not, why are you with them?
Some grace allowed for people that change or switch up after major milestones. I've heard of this happening after marriage, baby, etc. But even then the solution is relatively straightforward: do you want to be with the person they are now? If they return to their original state, do you want to be with someone that could revert back at any time?
Not implying it's easy to then make a decision based on the answers to these questions, but I would say it's relatively simple. And in the case where one does stay, as you say, it makes sense to identify your own contributions to the dynamic and what you can change to trigger a spiral with better outcomes.
I do all the trad things without complaints and no amount of stepping up has ever happened. I think this basically only works in one direction; punishing a spouse makes everything worse, but doing what they think is "your job" does not in the least make them think they should also do "your job."
TMI, but I'm a man raised by a SAHM who definitely perfected pouting-as-punishment, whose first relationships (quite young) were with folks with similarly passive aggressive or 'tricky' communication styles when upset (tbf, I was also insecure and a bad communicator, so I'm sure they regret these relationships too!). I'm currently trying to undo a lot of people-pleasing or -managing (as you point out, trying to get what you want without any conflict is not exactly pleasant for the other person). I've never really understood the fears you cite re: marriage, bc I've instinctually tried to avoid any loutish behavior in all my relationships - the problem was that I avoided them straight into emotional repression which made actual connection impossible lmao. A long pattern of taking things upon myself, suppressing my feelings, and then mysteriously feeling somewhere between unfulfilled and resentful.
This is all to say this article is really resonant, and helpful for me to read at this moment in time. It sounds like you have a lovely thing going, and certainly what I wish for. It does confirm my assumption that like, a lot of folks just kinda pick weird marriages and probably coulda been choosier (he says, while wondering what's up with marriage and childbirth rates...). Trying to make this the year I am ruthlessly forthright with everyone and stop compartmentalizing myself.
>he says, while wondering what's up with marriage and childbirth rates...
Among many other things, this is what annoys me about a certain TFR-anxious type of person. They do not nearly qualify their statements enough with the basic tension that maybe, the "natural" or desired birthrate in a society where people get to choose their partners and leave bad ones is lower than prior years.
That aside: have you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy"? The book itself is a bit hokey in today's modern age, but there are some gems there that I think you'd like.
Re: society - I’ve wondered recently if we might see something like what happened with divorce, where after an initial burst of cases, things predictably normalized. I don’t know what I would predict the next stage is in this case, but it does feel like a symptom of being mid-civilizational change.
Re: book - wow am I allergic to that branding! Looking into it to give it a fair shake and will circle back, but yeah I don’t think that’s a great title to attract dudes like me 😅
Cute