>It has been my sad conclusion after years of observing this that men are best behaved when they feel secure in their status over women and worst behaved when they fear a loss of it
I fully agree that neuroticism is the most negative of the Big Five traits. I don’t have enough experience to express an opinion on the rest of it, but it is well written and seems well argued.
All very good points. Though I'd think public misogyny would be a pretty good negative for any woman wanting to date--you don't want to date someone who hates you for obvious reasons!
The one thing you are missing, I think, is that women are attracted to confidence. So being more successful for neurotic men means faking non-neuroticism. Then you're always afraid they'll realize who you really are, etc.
That and you don't date more neurotic women--you date anyone who will have you!
I think what you talk about here as hatred of neuroticism is talked about elsewhere as a masculine focus on "control". I think it's really important to note that, as you point out, some people react to insecurity/neuroticism/lack of control by acting out (being tough, taking control, "being a strong man," etc.), and others do so inwardly (identifying as someone in control of their appetites and emotions, "getting their shit together," "doing the work," etc.). The former we more readily identify with toxic masculinity. The latter is something I'm contending with now - it turns out that suppressing your emotions and fearing your appetites such that you lean all your self-worth on a necessarily kinda illusory "control" is not actually the opposite of toxic masculinity, lmao.
I think your framework also highlights another downside of the latter approach, which is that it often weirdly treats women as fragile non-agents who have to be protected from everything.
Ofc, as you point out, the man who lets it all hang out so to speak is not actually going to be pro-social, so hard to know where we go from here. My recent reading has suggested that what really is necessary is an education not just in one's own emotions, but also in how to relate to other people. The stereotype that guys never talk about their relationships over brunch is the tip of the iceberg here. 99% of my thinking on gender and sexuality has been a solitary endeavor, which is somewhat terrifying considering how much of my life it has taken up. It should not be surprising that this has sometimes led to dysfunctional thinking or explosive emotions.
>It has been my sad conclusion after years of observing this that men are best behaved when they feel secure in their status over women and worst behaved when they fear a loss of it
:( I don’t disagree, but :(
I fully agree that neuroticism is the most negative of the Big Five traits. I don’t have enough experience to express an opinion on the rest of it, but it is well written and seems well argued.
All very good points. Though I'd think public misogyny would be a pretty good negative for any woman wanting to date--you don't want to date someone who hates you for obvious reasons!
The one thing you are missing, I think, is that women are attracted to confidence. So being more successful for neurotic men means faking non-neuroticism. Then you're always afraid they'll realize who you really are, etc.
That and you don't date more neurotic women--you date anyone who will have you!
How much of this behavior is a bug, and how much is a feature?
I think what you talk about here as hatred of neuroticism is talked about elsewhere as a masculine focus on "control". I think it's really important to note that, as you point out, some people react to insecurity/neuroticism/lack of control by acting out (being tough, taking control, "being a strong man," etc.), and others do so inwardly (identifying as someone in control of their appetites and emotions, "getting their shit together," "doing the work," etc.). The former we more readily identify with toxic masculinity. The latter is something I'm contending with now - it turns out that suppressing your emotions and fearing your appetites such that you lean all your self-worth on a necessarily kinda illusory "control" is not actually the opposite of toxic masculinity, lmao.
I think your framework also highlights another downside of the latter approach, which is that it often weirdly treats women as fragile non-agents who have to be protected from everything.
Ofc, as you point out, the man who lets it all hang out so to speak is not actually going to be pro-social, so hard to know where we go from here. My recent reading has suggested that what really is necessary is an education not just in one's own emotions, but also in how to relate to other people. The stereotype that guys never talk about their relationships over brunch is the tip of the iceberg here. 99% of my thinking on gender and sexuality has been a solitary endeavor, which is somewhat terrifying considering how much of my life it has taken up. It should not be surprising that this has sometimes led to dysfunctional thinking or explosive emotions.
As far as dating goes, I am desperately hoping to date a less neurotic woman next, but cannot in good conscience say they should sign up for it lmao