I loved the journey this took me on, "throwing plates at your own dignity" is such a good image. I wonder, was the sarcastic wah-wah thing encouraged in 90s parenting books or something? Relatable.
There's this dynamic discussed in psychotherapy (usually about parenting) where two people slip from relating or conversing into a "doer and done-to" dynamic, and nothing good can happen when you feel like someone is doing something unpleasant to you and you need to win. No information can go in. No relating is possible. You have to withdraw until you can see them as a person not a combatant. Trolling is the epitome of doer-done-to.
Are you spying on my current Twitter activity? I had just banned myself from the app for the rest of today after engaging with anons in a substandard fashion when this piece hit my inbox 😆 I'm a huge hypocrite too because I am generally opposed to internet snark. Some rationalize it by saying that they're putting someone down for the sake of educating *others* -- so that third parties reading the interaction can see how superior your position is. But even third party readers who agree with your opponent will see themselves as the target of the snark. It's best not to get in the habit of interacting ungraciously or uncharitably with anyone, lest that habit kicks in during a conversation where it definitely shouldn't.
I'm not sure what your definition of trolling is but I'm not sure how to square it with what's written. The idea behind trolling is that you get your (usually enemies but possibly innocent bystanders) to spend a disproportionate amount of energy and emotion engaging with something that you didn't put much thought into but deliberately designed to upset them. It's not really done to get them to change their mind so much as exhaust themselves and waste their time. It's effective on the internet because people can't physically come after you for doing this and you can also get many people with a single post. Imo good trolling is subtle, it has that effect on people without them realizing it.
So if someone were to troll your mom irl it would involve getting her irrationally angry with some small gesture and then retreating to a safe distance while she loses her shit, rinse, repeat. The key is getting to a safe space, if her rage is a negative consequence and she hits you with it then it stops being disproportional.
Good trolling also requires a certain audience to work. By now I have a set of rules I stick to for most discussions. If I tell someone they broke a rule and I’m disengaging if they continue to do so, the troll is short lived. Much like scam emails it only works on people that don’t have antibodies, but maybe that’s the point
I'd be hard pressed to find people that aren't receptive to some form of trolling, especially if you're good at making innocent but provocative statements
My comment is in good faith tho, I am not baiting for a disproportional response. Simply engaging with an argument or post isn't the same as being trolled
Interesting that people emotionally react “to” someone’s words/take/etc, instead of around it. If someone’s mad enough, or has gotten me mad enough, I switch to a mode where I’m primarily writing for their and my audience but not this person directly. It’s somewhat dismissive but the only way I’ve found to engage on that level outside of ignoring them, which I’m sure is another healthier option.
But it pays off when you have the same arguments over and over, and people assume their points are somehow novel or weren’t considered. It’s almost even worse than trolling for me to say: yes I get it, I know what you think, go look at my post from two years ago about it, if you still disagree then highlight my failure or exit the conversation. If I’ve mischaracterized your point, I’ll update.
Usually they quit, because the only options left are painting me as a liar (if I’ve done a good enough job, they can’t do this) or continuing to claim I don’t get it (harder to do when my exact quotes match theirs).
I loved the journey this took me on, "throwing plates at your own dignity" is such a good image. I wonder, was the sarcastic wah-wah thing encouraged in 90s parenting books or something? Relatable.
There's this dynamic discussed in psychotherapy (usually about parenting) where two people slip from relating or conversing into a "doer and done-to" dynamic, and nothing good can happen when you feel like someone is doing something unpleasant to you and you need to win. No information can go in. No relating is possible. You have to withdraw until you can see them as a person not a combatant. Trolling is the epitome of doer-done-to.
Are you spying on my current Twitter activity? I had just banned myself from the app for the rest of today after engaging with anons in a substandard fashion when this piece hit my inbox 😆 I'm a huge hypocrite too because I am generally opposed to internet snark. Some rationalize it by saying that they're putting someone down for the sake of educating *others* -- so that third parties reading the interaction can see how superior your position is. But even third party readers who agree with your opponent will see themselves as the target of the snark. It's best not to get in the habit of interacting ungraciously or uncharitably with anyone, lest that habit kicks in during a conversation where it definitely shouldn't.
I'm not sure what your definition of trolling is but I'm not sure how to square it with what's written. The idea behind trolling is that you get your (usually enemies but possibly innocent bystanders) to spend a disproportionate amount of energy and emotion engaging with something that you didn't put much thought into but deliberately designed to upset them. It's not really done to get them to change their mind so much as exhaust themselves and waste their time. It's effective on the internet because people can't physically come after you for doing this and you can also get many people with a single post. Imo good trolling is subtle, it has that effect on people without them realizing it.
So if someone were to troll your mom irl it would involve getting her irrationally angry with some small gesture and then retreating to a safe distance while she loses her shit, rinse, repeat. The key is getting to a safe space, if her rage is a negative consequence and she hits you with it then it stops being disproportional.
Trolling in that way is still negative for them and for you. It doesn't lead to a better world, just a much angrier one.
Good trolling also requires a certain audience to work. By now I have a set of rules I stick to for most discussions. If I tell someone they broke a rule and I’m disengaging if they continue to do so, the troll is short lived. Much like scam emails it only works on people that don’t have antibodies, but maybe that’s the point
I'd be hard pressed to find people that aren't receptive to some form of trolling, especially if you're good at making innocent but provocative statements
Totally, technically you got me already with your comment
My comment is in good faith tho, I am not baiting for a disproportional response. Simply engaging with an argument or post isn't the same as being trolled
Interesting that people emotionally react “to” someone’s words/take/etc, instead of around it. If someone’s mad enough, or has gotten me mad enough, I switch to a mode where I’m primarily writing for their and my audience but not this person directly. It’s somewhat dismissive but the only way I’ve found to engage on that level outside of ignoring them, which I’m sure is another healthier option.
But it pays off when you have the same arguments over and over, and people assume their points are somehow novel or weren’t considered. It’s almost even worse than trolling for me to say: yes I get it, I know what you think, go look at my post from two years ago about it, if you still disagree then highlight my failure or exit the conversation. If I’ve mischaracterized your point, I’ll update.
Usually they quit, because the only options left are painting me as a liar (if I’ve done a good enough job, they can’t do this) or continuing to claim I don’t get it (harder to do when my exact quotes match theirs).